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Billy Markland
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 7:26 am: | 
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Well, it looks like the BTK killer in Wichita, KS has resurfaced.
Here is a link to the Wichita, KS Eagle
http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/
Billy |
Erin Sigler
Sergeant
Username: Rapunzel676
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 3:57 pm: |
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Darn it Billy, you beat me to it!
This is a case that has long troubled me, and I hope that if the letter is indeed from BTK, he's finally caught. I realize that's going to be difficult since the case is about as old as I am, but if they can solve the Green River murders, perhaps there's some hope that BTK's victims may finally get some justice.
Any thoughts on the case from the best-informed group of serial killer hunters on the internet? Needless to say, we're dealing with a highly organized, intelligent guy who keeps trophies and enjoys taunting the police and press. I guess my question is this: Why now? Why come out of the woodwork after being silent for nearly 20 years (or more, if you don't credit the 1986 letter)? Personally, I think it could have something to do with the very fact the recent capture and conviction of the Green River Killer. Perhaps it's BTK's way of saying, "Hey, I'm still out there! You haven't solved them all yet!" It's also possible (and more likely) that he was just paroled from prison for another, unrelated crime, or that he's been committed to a mental institution all this time and was released. I'm not certain if he's still a threat or not, since he'd have to be at least in his late forties and probably older; although of course there are examples of serial killers who kept up their activities (Chikatilo and Shawcross come to mind) well into middle age. John Douglas thinks this guy may very well be the exception to the rule, that BTK may very well have stopped on his own and finds writing the police and press sufficient to satisfy his "urges."
Well, enough from me. What does everyone think about this latest development? Is BTK back, and if so, why now? Is it possible to catch him at such a late date? |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 446
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 4:35 pm: |
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He's probably been in jail for the last 20 years and is just now been let out. Police ought to be looking at the recently parolled/released.
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Erin Sigler
Sergeant
Username: Rapunzel676
Post Number: 25
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 5:03 pm: |
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I tend to agree, Ally. What do you think he's been in prison for? I'm leaning toward aggravated burglary or something to that effect--perhaps he was caught attempting to break into someone's home intent on committing murder but was caught and the police never realized who it was they had. I'm not sure if that would carry the requisite sentence, however. If we're operating from the assumption that the murders ended in 1986, as the current letter seems to indicate, what sort of offense would carry an 18-year sentence? I don't know what the sentencing rules are like in Kansas, but it's worth finding out. I hope this is indeed a lead police are pursuing. |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 447
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 5:15 pm: |
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The only way I could see something minor carrying a major sentence is if he had a fairly impressive rap sheet prior to whatever incident he was popped for. It may have been for an aggravated assault w/special circumstances or possibly an attempted rape/sexual assault/kidnapping that wasn't linked to BTK killings. His behavior once in the prison may have kept him from being let out on parole early.
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David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 259
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 5:42 pm: |
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Hi, Erin and Ally
I believe the Kansas papers have reported that police are looking at who's been released recently.
I feel badly for people in Wichita right now. Gotta be a frightening thing--home invasion is everybody's bugbear, isn't it? It has to be pretty unnerving being a resident at the Old Manor apartment complex.
Dave |
Erin Sigler
Sergeant
Username: Rapunzel676
Post Number: 26
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 6:05 pm: |
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After spending some time looking at the Kansas statutes, I think you're right on target, Ally. Either it's multiple felonies, a felony on a guy with a rap sheet, or an attempted (or even completed) sexual assault. I'm not entirely sure what "special circumstances" are, though, particularly in a non-murder case.
David, I know what you mean. I read that business is booming for local gun shops and security companies. Let's hope this maniac is content to just write letters and doesn't carry out any further attacks. |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 448
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 6:51 pm: |
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Special circumstances regarding assault generally means there was a hate crime category attached to it. If the victim was black and a racial slurs were used during the assault or something like that. I am not sure if hate crime legislature was on the books 20 years ago or not but I am sure there are some other categories that would fit with special circumstances.
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M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 8:22 pm: |
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It might be him or a copycat killer using the very same M.O. Funny thing is after PRIME TIME did a report on the Zodiac a letter came in. It looked like the other Zodic letters. Not much else has been said about it since. I hope with BTK this is not the case. |
bjbruther
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 3:35 am: |
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About the recent resurfacing of BTK--if you do credit the 1986 letter, then police should look for a fellow with a rap sheet that includes two long stretches in the pen, one from 77-the murder in the letter, then another sentence in 86-87, and a recent release . . . I'd say both would involve breaking and entering (the first long stretch), then may be breaking and entering with violence . . . ? my best guess and I am glad I do not live in Wichita . . . BJ |
Billy Markland
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 11:57 am: |
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A good article today in the Wichita Eagle regarding what is known of BTK.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8294875.htm
Erin, you may have hit the nail on the head in reference to the Green River killer. It seems like he wrote a letter to the paper or a TV station once complaining of the attention the Zodiac killer was getting.
Personally, I don't believe he was in jail. I believe he either stayed in town and travelled out to get his jollies over the years or moved somewhere. I stongly suspect he has paid some visits to KC for that purpose. Also, reading the above mentioned article, one word popped into my head - Military.
It is enough to make me glad I have the .357 handy.
Billy |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 6:24 am: |
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Well, I don't know that you have to look for someone who has been jailed a long time. Based upon the timeline of known killings, he could have been spacing them out with long gaps. If there weren't longs gaps he has killed a lot, lot more people than his current list credits him for and they just aren't being linked. I would also think that the gaps get longer as he gets older, regardless of how long or short they are.
Since the letter takes credit for a 1986 killing and provides pretty good evidence that he's responsible, if he was jailed, it could have been several years after that, going by apparent gaps... then he could have been in jail for maybe up to 10 years and then decided to send off a letter a few years after he got out.
Main point being is that if you limit yourself to people serving 20 years you're almost guaranteed to miss this guy. (Well, actually completely guaranteed as that would mean he'd be in jail for the '86 killing we know he did, but I was assuming you guys were rounding up in your references.) It's certainly plausible that he did hard time, but I don't think it's necessarily so. |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 944
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 11:22 am: |
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Guys,
BTK is a new entity to me I must admit.
I know its something thats been mentioned by Billy but do any of you chaps know of simliar MO's and signatures around the US?
Over here in Blighty the coverage is limited and all my sources have come from the links put up above.
I wonder what was trigger for him this time?? What was in this latest letter ?
If anyone wants to mail me the details I would be grateful.
One final thing though, if he feels the playing field is as it was back in the 70's and 80's then this Guy will be caught.
Monty
And please be safe out there.
Our little group has always been and always will until the end...
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Belinda Pearce
Sergeant
Username: Belinda
Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 10:40 pm: |
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I have read about this one in John Douglas book.Very nasty.I hope they get him and |
GODSWAYnotmine
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 6:25 pm: |
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He might have been in jail, but another idea is that he might have been on anti-depressants for mood swings, depression or other reasons. Zoloft, Wellbutrin, and Prozac all have sexual side-effects that affect people in varying degrees. These are also fairly expensive drugs. If he lost his job, his job changed insurance plans that did not cover prescription drugs or he recently retired early and lost insurance benefits he might not be able to afford the drugs and stopped getting them. This would explain the intermiable time off and the sudden re-emergence. If he lost his job or retired boredom, more severe depression, and other factors could trigger old sexual habits and the loss of controlling drugs could really escalate the behavior.
Most serial killers are addicted to porn and fantasy and must act both out. His masterbation on the crime scenes suggests this is the case with BTK. His profile states that he would be immature and like to hang out with children more than adults. He may prefer kiddy porn over adult porn. If prison was the reason for his long term "vacation" period then I suggest the obvious sexual assault conviction but also kiddy porn convictions or other porn related criminal activity. That would carry a long sentence. In prison he could have been on the anti-depressants (seritonin reuptake inhibitors).
In any case he has decades of pent-up sexual deviancy ready to be released upon the world.
In a world where Satan has human toys like BTK, and is free to steal, kill, and destroy it is really great to know that we have a refuge in JESUS CHRIST. It is promised that if you place your life in HIS hands nothing can take you out of HIS hands and HE will protect you. If you dont know JESUS as your personal savior go to your local church and ask the pastor how you can be saved and protected by GOD in these times. |
Billy Markland
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 4:46 am: |
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Looking over the web for old, unsolved murders fitting somewhat the particulars of BTK, I found this:
http://sbi.jus.state.nc.us/sbimain/mooney.htm
Castle Hayne, for those not familiar with NC, is a small town outside of Wilmington, NC.
Billy |
bjbruther
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 4:00 am: |
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I tend to agree, a nasty one, plus if he has not been in jail periodically over the last 30 years, then they should look at the military (unlikely, serial killers tend to have problems with authority figures that are not "the killer") or overseas construction industry (oil?, dam building? etc.)--the Wichita paper describes him as a man used to giving orders -- perhaps he has been killing, but overseas, especially in "Third World" areas with police unaware of his killings . . . and now he's back and ready to retire (age around 60). |
nutnhoney927
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 2:30 pm: |
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hi
i also think he didnt serve time. i know they have profiles about what his behavior would be, but what if he has been just waiting all these years. if he is as smart as they say he could be he wont fit in any catagory completely. just maybe a game, a very patient game. |
dipsy08
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 11:05 pm: |
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BTK wrote a letter to get the attention and that could easily be all he was looking for. He wants everyone to know him, hear about him. He could have been in jail for short amounts of times throughout the past 20 years but then again he could have just gone somewhere else to do his killing. Now everything here has settled down from the last time and most everyone has forgotten him so he decieded to come back and get his name in not just the newspaper but everyones minds. |
Sara Toomey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 7:03 pm: |
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Hi! I moved to Wichita in 1985, long after the BTK killings stopped (the current letter revealed an '86 murder as a BTK, but we didn't know that until the recent letter). In the mid '90s the head of the BTK investigation, Lt. Ken Landwehr, met with the local members of Mensa and shared crime scene details and photos not released to the public, and asked us for help. None of us came up with anything they hadn't already pursued, but one of the members is writing a book on BTK (Bob Beatty).
Observation 1: I wonder if, since this is clearly an intelligent and organized guy, Lt. Ken Landwehr was hoping to find a suspect among the Mensans.
Observation 2: Bob told me that his theory was that there was never a real BTK, that the crimes were unrelated but that the person who committed one of them was trying to confuse the investigations by using letters and phone calls to make it look like a serial. Until the most recent letter that had crime scene photos (and the letter has been verified as a genuine BTK letter), all the other contacts contained information that was in the public domain. So: the recent re-emergance could have been because the real BTK caught wind of Bob's theory and wanted to show that he really is a serial killer. By the way - Bob voluntarily provided DNA so the police could rule him out as a suspect. |
Dr. Watson
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 4:31 pm: |
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I tend towards the theory that BTK has been in Wichita the entire time. If the people down there are smart they will check into all ongoing and retired comunity officials--doctors, lawyers,
clerics and of course police--with emphasis on men in their sixties, which would be age appropriate given the thirty year interval.
One reason for the silence broken not yet mentioned is that death, due to illness or age, may be imminent for this individual, so that now while there is still time he wants some validation.
As to who he is I favor a cleric or police official, someone who can come and go about the community without standing out. The killer may very well have resided in Wichita his entire life and is the product of an extremely repressed upbringing that culminates in feelings of arrogance and superiority that explode in rage. This is someone who has been unable to connect in human relations, which may account for the female victims. As for the Oteros, it could have been racial superiority or perceived or misperceived mistreatment of him on their part. But in any case this person on some level wants to be known.
To that end I say to him or any other hitherto anonymous SK's out there-- if you think you are so brilliant, try matching wits with me! I undertand you better than you know yourselves!
Clarice Starling my ass! Afraid to tangle with the real thing?
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Sherlock Holmes
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2004 - 12:23 am: |
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If the police haven't caught him for all the murders he's committed so far, its unlikely they got him for something else. This guy is one of the smart few to have killed so many and escaped for so long. I think its likely that he decided to move on and do something else for a while. His rekindling of this seems largely like a stunt to recapture some of the old terror he use to strike into public as well as to taunt the police. I doubt he really wants to kill again. I have to say though that in reading about him, he seems all too hollywood serial killer like with messages like "be glad you weren't here, because I was." Here is a link that has 13 chapter summary on him. Hope they find the arrogant son of a bitch.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/btk/returns_11.html?sect=4 |
Jeff B
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 1:53 pm: |
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There's one problem with the incarceration theory. They have had fingerprints from the murderer since the mid-1970's and a DNA profile since the mid-1980's. Anyone who is incarcerated has their fingerprints taken and many today also have their DNA taken (though not all). One would think that if the man had been incarcerated they would have been able to at least get a fingerprint match by now.
I am going to make the predication that the murderer will be caught within a few MONTHS if not a few WEEKS. The Witchita police are getting DNA samples taken from all males within a certain age range who were located within a short distance from the crime scenes (which were all within 3 1/2 miles of each other) as well as collecting DNA from all previous suspects. I think it's just a matter of time before he is caught. |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 255
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 6:38 pm: |
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It should be a reasonable amount of time, but that may not be the case. It can be very difficult in most states to compel a suspect to provide DNA. CA and a few other states now have laws requiring violent felons to provide a sample that is kept on file and is part of their registration requirements. However,in many cases it requires a court order and Judges want to see cause. I am waiting to see what will happen.
Mikey |
Aleta Gayle
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 5:23 am: |
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Everyone is thinking this man is old. I haven't heard all the evidence but it seems to me that the killer could have been 16yo at the time of the first murder. It seems he spent a lot of time on the first one. It seems to me he was in the throes of puberty. If so, he could be as young as fifty now. He could have checked himself into a mental hospital. He could be forced to be on drugs for schizophrenia. It seems he wants credit and notoriety, if so, he could have checked himself into a mental hospital and then released for a furlough in 86 in time to murder. He could have joined the military after the first killings then returned to the Wichita area for a family funeral igniting the anger in him. Then left again. The police shouldn't limit their searches to jails. They should check military records, mental hospital records. They should check the obituaries for the area the week before the 86 killing. Maybe a High School Reunion lured him back in 86. Anyway just some theories. As far a pictures of the 86 crime scene go, tourists carry cameras. He was visiting. Maybe revisiting his youth. He's been enjoying the pix for 13 or so years.
I think he's trying to control himself. |
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