| Author |
Message |
    
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:57 am: | 
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re: Jack The Stripper
Does anyone have any updated information on this 1960's prostitute murderer.
The police seemed to feel that the killer suicided and the murders stopped. Suicide is extremly rare with serial killers.
The police felt he was a security guard who had access to car paint shops where they knew some of the victims had died due to paint residue on certain of the bodies.
If the police were so sure the suicide was the killer why did they refuse to release his name.
I assume that the libel laws are the same in the U.K. as they are here in the U.S. Namely that the right to sue for libel dies with the individuals death.
If so, and if the police were so sure they had traced the murderer why do they refuse to name their man.
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as the case is virtually unknown here in the U.S. Nevertheless when I was raised in Canada I bought the book called "Found Naked and Dead" about the Stripper and the so called Thames nude murders . The same used book store had a First Edition copy of Cullen's "When London Walked in Terror" and a British First Edition copy of Daniel Farsons' book. I know that I paid less than five dollars for all three books. This was in about 1978 and of course I still have the books.
Best Regards
Gary
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AP Wolf
Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 1:43 pm: |
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Gary
I'm not very up to date on this either. Used to be.
I do remember though a recent account - how reliable I now can't say - which actually pointed the finger at a named policeman who died in unexplained circumstances around that time.
Perhaps someone else might have more info on that for you.
I believe it not to be unusual for the police in the UK not to name a suspect in a murder case where that suspect has died during the course of the investigation.
I suppose they feel with the suspect dead then justice has been served.
By a higher authority as it were. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Police Constable
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 4:22 am: |
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Hi Gary,
Maybe it's all to do with whether it's really in the public interest to name a dead suspect or not. Presumably not, in this case, if the police were confident that the danger from 'Jack the Stripper' was over.
I think the police had already narrowed down the suspects to only two or three, and were homing in on these when one committed suicide. If they were later able to eliminate the remaining suspect(s), they would have concluded that their man had topped himself in preference to anticipating what state justice had in store.
The idea that a serial killer would be driven to suicide by the thought of the terrible crimes he has committed comes, no doubt, from 'normal' people's inability or unwillingness to understand how anyone could do such things and live with themselves afterwards.
But I'm not sure how safe it is to state categorically that suicide is extremely rare with serial killers. Serial killers themselves are extremely rare, so we don't have a big enough sample to judge. We don't know the fates of those who aren't caught, but I would not expect the proportion of serial killers with suicidal tendencies to be too different from that of the general population. What makes all the difference, IMHO, is when a serial killer feels cornered, and is no longer in control, or, more accurately, is forced by outside influences to control his murderous urges.
Measures are usually taken to prevent those who are caught from doing away with themselves, Fred West being one example who managed it anyway.
Love,
Caz |
AP Wolf
Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 1:36 pm: |
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Further to my last post on this subject.
I have been yet again been chastised by Stewart Evans for being somewhat out of date on this case, and quite rightly so. He has kindly sent me a newspaper clipping from the 'Mail on Sunday', 18th November 2001 which I have attempted to unsuccessfully post here.
It does however name Freddie Mills, the light heavy weight boxing champion of the world in 1948, as a strong suspect for this series of murders. He shot himself in his car in a Soho alley in 1965.
My thanks to Stewart. |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 12:28 pm: |
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Caroline
Thanks for the response.
I know that here in the U.S. we have the sad distinction of having a seeming proliferation of
Serial killers. Ken Ressler, who is a pioneer in research on serial killers was asked at a conference about how many serial killers could be operating in the U.S. today or at any given moment. His answer was some forty at the very least to well over two-hundred. However, as you state -we don'T know the fate of those serial killers who are uncaught and that includes a great many.
I agree with you on a serial killers' inability to be driven to suicide by thinking about the terrible crimes he has committed and feeling remorse. So much for the idea that JTR "topped"
himself after the glut of Miller's Court.
The serial killer seems to be a coward when faced with personal harm or the thought of
harming himself. ThIs is what the experts say at least.
Nevertheless we will never be given accurate statistics on the serial killer who does kill himself because either his crimes have gone undetected and a random suicide is ignored, or because the police have cases to close and they blame every crime in the unclosed case files on a suicide.
I believe the legal system is diffent in the U.S. from the U.k. our head Prosecuters are elected and there is tremendous pressure on them to be able to say at election time they closed 95% of files given to them.
Best Regards
Gary |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 6:20 pm: |
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AP
Thanks for the further information and thanks to Stewart as well.
I will check the newspaper archives for the specific date you mention.
Freddie Mills adds a certain additional interest in the case for me. I have heard of Freddie Mills and I hope that most Americans would recognize the name of a former boxing Champion.
I could be wrong but it seems to me Freddie Mills was a thug with underworld connections in his latter years.
Thanks Again
Gary
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Mark Andrew Pardoe
Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 7:47 pm: |
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Whatho all,
Although Freddie Mills might have been Jack the Stripper, aren't we wandering into the "Accuse a Celebrity Syndrome" of which we have seen enough in the Ripper saga?
It is a worrying trait as, at present, hardly a week goes by in Britain without another celebrity being accused of sex crimes.
Cheers, Mark |
Christopher T George
Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 8:30 pm: |
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Hi, Mark et al.:
Of course, Mark, you are exactly right that the trend to put celebrities in the frame is somewhat nauseating, so we have Lewis Carroll and Prince Albert Victor as "named" suspects in the Ripper case, or Orson Welles as recently named by Mary Pacios in the 1947 Black Dahlia case in Los Angeles. I don't know what the evidence is against Freddie Mills but I wonder if that is not also a fairly baseless candidacy.
In any case, I found the following article on a newsgroup site. I don't have an exact date for the article but imagine it came out about the same time as the Mail on Sunday article of 18 November 2001 cited above. The article was posted 11 November 2001 on the newsgroup alt.gossip.celebrities. Does anyone know if the book by Jimmy Tippet that covers the Jack the Stripper case and Mills's suicide ever appeared?
From the London Observer
For 20 years Freddie Mills was one of the best-loved figures in British sport. Crowned light-heavyweight champion of the world in 1948, he was a colourful fighter who seemed impervious to pain. What Mills lacked in skill, he more than made up for with aggression and courage. Even after hanging up his gloves to become a club owner and promoter, he remained a darling of the media and a hero to millions.
But, according to a new book to be published next year, Mills took terrible secrets to his grave. It claims he was a vicious serial killer, responsible for the brutal deaths of at least eight young women whose naked bodies were found in or around the River Thames between 1959 and 1965.
All of the victims were working as prostitutes and died when their killer, dubbed Jack the Stripper, strangled or choked them during sex. The killer has never been identified and the case remains unsolved.
In July 1965, a few months after the last body was discovered, Mills was found slumped in the back of his car in a Soho alleyway. He had been shot in the head and a small calibre rifle was resting between his knees. His family and many of his closest friends - who included numerous celebrities and major criminals, including the Kray twins - were convinced he had been murdered, but police ruled his death a suicide.
Dozens of theories sprang up to explain what had happened. One was that Mills, married with children, was secretly bisexual, had been arrested in a public lavatory frequented by homosexuals and was facing court on an indecency charge.
Another version claims that he had been unable to cope following the suicide of his close friend Michael Holliday, a popular cabaret singer. In this version of events Mills was rumoured to have had an affair with Holliday, who was also connected to Ronnie Kray. Yet another version has his suicide staged by Chinese gangsters who wanted to take over his Soho nightclub.
Shortly before he died, Ronnie Kray quashed any rumours concerning Mills's sexuality, according to his then wife, Kate Kray. 'Ronnie and Freddie were very good friends. So much so that a lot of people believed they were lovers. I asked Ron about that before he died and he told me that there wasn't a shred of truth. He said that Freddie was a real man's man and that he wasn't that way inclined.'
Reformed south London gangster Jimmy Tippet - whose father, Jimmy Snr, was a leading contender for the British lightweight championship and fought on numerous bills promoted by Mills - interviewed three generations of criminals and boxers for his forthcoming book about organised crime in London and believes he has uncovered the truth about the former champion.
Tippet's research has revealed that in the days before his death Mills had asked several prominent figures in London's gangland whether they could provide him with a pistol. 'They were left with the impression that there was someone he wanted to sort out or execute,' says Tippet. 'They offered to sort things out on his behalf, but Mills was insistent that he needed the weapon himself.'
Unable to secure a proper gun, he went to see a friend, Mary Ronaldson, who ran a rifle range at Battersea fun fair. He asked if he could borrow a weapon, telling her he had been invited to a charity fete and wanted to dress up as a cowboy. It was that gun that was found in his car. 'In those days the members of the boxing fraternity were like a Masonic circle,' says Tippet. 'A lot of people who were close to him, including my father, are still unwilling to talk about exactly what was said during those times and those who are won't say anything on the record. But I have been told that Freddie feared the police were closing in on him for the murders and decided to take his own life rather than face trial. He had apparently been suffering from dizzy spells and bouts of depression for some time.'
The police investigation into the death of Mills was headed by Leonard 'Nipper' Read, the detective who would later bring the Kray twins to justice. While convinced that Mills committed suicide, Read does not believe he was responsible for the murders. He claims that confusion arose because the chief suspect was revealed to be a married man and former boxer in his forties who committed suicide in mid-1965. The man has never been named.
Tippet has investigated these claims but found little to link the chief suspect - a security guard on an estate close to where the last body was found - to the other murders.
'There were other suspects. There are people who know the truth and when the police finally open up the files to the public, the full story will come out.' |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 8:25 pm: |
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Mark
I have never believed that JTR was anything other than a nobody like almost all serial killers.
You are certainly correct about the JTR murders being attributed to some of the most famous members of society. This has given JTR an almost laughable reputation in some quarters.
Best Regards
Gary |
Christopher T George
Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 8:37 am: |
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World Light Heavyweight Champion Freddie Mills (1919-1965)
For Mills's boxing record, see The Cyber Boxing Zone Encyclopedia. |
AP Wolf
Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 1:13 pm: |
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I totally agree with some of the posts here concerning celebrities and sensational crimes, in fact in my own work this is actually a vital cornerstone to help prop up my fragile house of cards.
However in fairness I should point out that my own contribution - and hence Stewart Evans - was merely a friendly attempt to further the knowledge of an enquiring mind. |
Christopher T George
Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 33
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 2:59 pm: |
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Hi AP et al.:
I noted from his boxing record that Freddie Mills was from the Bournemouth area and it occurred to me that he might be buried there, but he is not. He is on the Find-A-Grave site which shows that he is buried in Camberwell New Cemetery in London. It occurred to me that if he had been buried in the Bournemouth, conceivably, if you want to believe it, Jack the Ripper (Druitt) and Jack the Stripper (Mills) might have been buried in the same general area.
Chris |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 9:38 am: |
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Hi all
Firstly many thanks to Stephen Ryder for putting me in contact with Stephen Sloman who posted on this site a few weeks ago about his mother Hannah Tailford.
My company is now persuing his story for a telvision programme which will hopefully be broadcast sometime between May and July.
We are working together to try and find as many details as possible about Hannah Tailfords life and in particular details about other possible siblings and family.
I am aware that there is a wealth of knowledge on these boards so if anyone has any information about Hannah Tailford or the Stripper murders we'd be most greatful for your help.
In particular we are after news paper stories from the time, photographs or even contacts for officers who may have worked on the original case.
We already have a number of leads from Brian Connell's book 'Found Naked and Dead' and James Mortons 'Fighters'. But information on places she may have worked or more importantly people she may have worked with (realize this is a long shot) would be totally invalueable. The last known address is in the Nottinghill area and she may have used the name Hannah Lynch.
Anyway you've all been of so much help in the past I thought it worth while opening a 'Stripper' thread again while we're searching through old records and birth certificates.
I gather from the Met that this case is not officially closed although they do not appear to have surviving DNA or phorensic's. So we've a long wait for their records.
It had been my understanding that a Security guard was thought almost certainly to have commited these crimes but in some recent conversations I have had this may not be as clear cut as I was originally lead to beleive. I've also read the link to Fredie Mills but can find nothing to substanciate a conection or link him directly to these crimes.
Very much open to any advice or help on the matter anybody can lend us.
Jeff leahy |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 765
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 10:51 am: |
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Hi Jeff,
I'm afraid I don't know much about these murders. I only found a single article in the Times, 13 Sept 1965. There is only a very brief mention of Hannah Tailford, but the article does say that she was difficult to trace because she used five aliases. Overall, apparently a lot of the police's information about the Jack the Stripper victims came from local prostitutes who weren't always reliable.
It's my understanding that these murders occurred in West London? Assuming an inquest was held, I'd recommend that Mr. Sloman get in touch with the current West London coroner in Fulham, Miss Alison Thompson. Since Mr. Sloman is a close relative, I'd think that the coroner would give him permission to access the record of her inquest--however, if the police in 1965 were having trouble tracing her, it might be that there's not a lot of information there.
Again, I don't know anything about the case and hopefully I've got the West London jurisdiction right. I also have a phone number for the Coroner's Court if you need it. Feel free to PM me.
Cheers
Dave |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 12:51 pm: |
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Hi Dave
I've traced the corona's reports the Met archives in Farringdon I have a ref number and was going to try and get there tomorrow. Will that be different from then Fulham coroner?
We do have a number of alias's from 'Found Naked and Dead' the important one seems to be Lynch which we are currently trying to trace.
We gather that Hannah Taiford had a daughter by an Allan Lynch, Pembridge Villers, Nottinghill in 1965.
We also know that Hannah was identified by her sister and father (William John Tailford) possibly from Horghton or Heddon-on-the-wall, Northumberland. But I'm afraid I dont know this area.
I'm afraid I must dash but will contact you in the morning many thanks for your help.
Jeff Leahy |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 766
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 3:39 pm: |
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Hi Jeff,
They are different places, but I had a brain stutter, Jeff. You're right to try the London Met Archives--particularly if you've found it in their holdings! I think the Coroner's Court in Fulham would have passed it along to them some time ago.
Cheers,
Dave |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1355
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 4:42 pm: |
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Hi,
I personally find it a slur on Freddie Mills character as a man and a true boxing sportsman, that he undoubtably was, to accuse him on this site as a murderer of Prostitutes as the 'Jack the stripper killer'.
I am not saying that because of his status in the media, he may have been involved in gang land activities, and pressure because of this may have resulted in his death.
But suicide or murder[debatable] let this colourful man rest in peace.
He was no more a killer of defenseless women than I or the rest of us was.
I used to drink in the pub that Freddie used to train in in his early days'The Barley Mow ' on the Main Dorking road, and from the old timers there he was a real nice bloke.
Connections with the underworld , possibly yes, but protection rackets and extortion is not a view to being a homicidal killer.
Regards Richard.
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Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 6:06 am: |
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Dear Richard
I, and I beleive if you read the other postings carefully, have NOT accused Fredie Mills of being Jack the Stripper.
However it is a point of fact that a number of books and articles on the internet link Fredie Mills name to the Stripper murders. Having read a number of itoms I could find nothing which seriously links Fredie except a comment that at one time 'The police suspected a married man who was a boxer', hardly damning evidence.
I will hold any final judgement until I've read James Mortons book 'Fighters' which should arrive this afternoon. Until then however I was interested if anybody new of any actual reason why Fredie Mills had been linked to this case apart from the fact that he commited suicide shortly after the final murder.
Lets face it we hang enough inocent Ripper suspects out on a noose with much less evidence. Look at the hatchet job Miss Cornwall did on poor old Walter Sicket.
My main interest in the Stripper murders is NOT the who done it anyway. I'm trying to trace Hannah Tailfords family. If you live in the Eastend Richard and have any contacts or information that may help then please help.
I spoke to a decendant of Fredie Mills recently who had a copy of a 'This is Your Life' on Fredie which was never broadcast, very interesting stuff. I can asure you that we have no intention what so ever of framing an inocent man, I was just trying to explore the facts about the case and try to get up to speed on as many details as possible.
Yours Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 6:21 am: |
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OK I've done a little research and thought I'd share a few findings with regard to Richards statement:
In James Mortons book fighters it states: Nipper Read, who intestigated Mill's death, was horrified by the accusations that Mills could have been the killer. "These rumours were outrageous for there is no justification for any suggestion that Freddie was, in any way, a suspect in the investigation."
The police had mounted one of the biggest investigations in recent history, checking the number plates and movements of every vechile in and out of the west end area where the girls went missing. Its unlikely they would have missed Fredie Mill's.
In Brian McConnell's book Found Naked and Dead. He suggests that an ex-police officer he names Big John was responcible for the killings. Which is why it was hushed up.
The best discription of the killer was by Blonde Beryl who was with Margret McGowen the night she disappeared. They were both very drunk, left the pub to be picked up by two cars in convoy. She states: "The man she went with? Let me see. Yes he was about 5ft 8 inches, between 30-32 I would say, well built and he had a full face with big ears, and brown hair. He was a Londoner by his accent and he wore a sheepskin Jacket. He had a grey zephyr, but at Sheperds bush we lost site of it." Perhaps this discription and the fact that the police were looking for someone with the strength to nock the girls teeth out lead to rumours in the underworld about Fredie Mills given his noteriety as a fighter.
Whether these girls were all killed by Big John or not is an interesting debate. Having discussed Martha Tabrams MO at length with 'Glen' (are you THere?) I'd say there were bigger gaps in the MO's and times and locations, of the Stripper murders than the Ripper murders. Two die from drowning, two from suphercation the rest were strangled. The only real link to these girls apart from there profession is their size, all between 5ft and 5ft 2inches tall. Most were found naked but some had clothes, the last four had teeth missing.
If I get time later I will try and post a more accurate outline of the eight girls death's, time frames etc.
I'm also interested if any body has any information about the following London Clubs ie there location in 1964 and what they would be now, who owned them: Coco's (possibly 35 Goodge St) the Bambo club. The limbo, Take Five Number Nine (In wardour Mews) the Tartan Club (Tachbrook Street SW1) and finally in Victoria the Shakespeare public House and Windsor Dive.
Any info much appreciated.
Jeff |
Lee McLoughlin
Detective Sergeant
Username: Lee
Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 9:04 am: |
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Hi Everyone,
I am an avid fan of boxing and know the Freddie Mills story very well. Mills was found shot dead in July 1965. Although the offical cause of death was suicide, no one believes that it was.
Freddie Mills was killed by someone in the London Gangland scene. The story that I was told is that Mill's club was wanted by a gang and he wouldn't sell. He was murdered by this gang.
With repect to the the Mills as JTS theory, it is rubbish from start to finish. The Stripper was a man who worked as a night security guard in Chiswick and the police knew who he was. It is also important to add that the victims had had sexual intercourse shortly before death and there is a strong possiblillty that Mills was having a homosexual relationship with a well known London performer. |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:28 am: |
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Yes but..Fredie was married and the strangled stripper victims were buggered.
The mystery surrounding Fredie Mills death is the position of the gun. He was shot in the back of the head and the gun laying on the seat next to him didn't make sence.
However Fredie had been suffering from head aches and depression for some time. He probably did commit suicide.
The security guard is one of the same as Big John, also an ex-policeman refused promotion, in Brian McConnells Book. This book was published in 1975 by New English Library or NEL publications. If any one has any idea where NEL now are or how to contact Brian McConnell, I'd apriciate the tip. He obviously interveiwed people directly involved in the case and may have more background information reguarding the victims.
Jeff |
Lee McLoughlin
Detective Sergeant
Username: Lee
Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:37 am: |
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Hi Jeff,
I didn't know the first of your facts.
The entry wound was in Freddie Mill's eye. The normal entry wound for a suicide by gun is in the mouth or in the temple.
Freddie Mills certinly was suffering from headaches. This was caused by the amount of servere beatings he took during his ring career.
(Freddie Mills was a natrual light-heavyweight, however his promoter and manager put him in many Heavyweight contests where he was too small).
Lee |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 11:09 am: |
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Sorry Lee, back of the head is a little miss leading. Mills was shot twice. I'll quote from Mortons book: The superintendant said he'd shot himself twice. He'd put the gun in his mouth and tried to pull the trigger and as he couldn't quite reach he'd had to turn sideways. He was such a brave Bast**d he'd done it again.
The police were satisfied that the second shot had killed Mills and knowone else was involved.
Back of the head wasn't strictly accurate it was more the side of the head. The ambulance driver said the gun was out of Mills reach. One of the Cartridges was on the front seat?
However it is generally agreed that Mill's killed himself for reason unknown. It is very unlikely that he had anything to do with the Stripper murders.
Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:00 am: |
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Ok I'm going to slightly contradict myself but I think its worth saying that there is no smoke without fire and I've finally discovered the matches.
The source of the story seems to come from the son of gangland boss Billy Howard. He claims that he was told a story about Fredie Mills and singer Michael Holiday. Vai singer Dorothy Squires and pianist Russ Conway. The gist is that they were having a homosexual affair. that they were both bi-sexual and picked up girls for mild sado masocistic parties. in around 1959 on one occation things got out of hand and a girl deid. Mills disposed of the body and pursuaded Holiday not to go to police. This was probably Figg (found with a blue white stripped dress under a Willow tree on the thames embankment) The relationship then cooled until the early sixties when the same thing happen again and Michael Holiday commited suicide.
Take into account the discription by Blonde Beryle of the killer, the two cars. Take into account what was known about Hannah Tailford and the private party scene particularly involving Homosexual and Transvestite activity. The suggestion that Mills liked sex in a way linked to the Stripper victims and you have an underworld bon fire.
Ok I still don't by that Mills was the Stripper but this story demonstrates why many in the underworld were convinced Mills was the Stripper and why his name has been consistantly linked over the years to these crimes.
The mystery surrounding Mills death continues to flame the fire. The logical conclusion however, if you except the testomony of May Ronaldson, is that he commit suicide the gun slipping when he made the first attempt, taking his eye out, one bullet passing through the near side rear door. A third shot finishing off his agony.
Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 31
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:48 am: |
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Hello Again
Require some help as usual. I've been told that some of the Ripper walk people also do ' Stripper' tours, so someone might know the locations of these crimes.
Does anyone know where the 'Heron factory Estate at Acton' might be today? In particular I'm looking for a transformer station at the rear of one of the factories (posssibly involved with car spraying) where some of the bodies may have been stored.
I have been through local history Ealing and Hammersmith but we can find no mention of a Heron estate 1959-1965.
Any help or information much appriciated.
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4294
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 6:15 am: |
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Jeff, there's a Heron Trading Estate.
http://www2.cpd.co.uk/p2/public/browse/Leasehold/Industrial/Greater_London/West_London.do
Robert |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 32
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 7:33 am: |
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Many thanks Rob
Would you beleive that Donaldsons who are handling the property are ex-directory?
Anyway I have now located the site which is near to Waterfeilds Road where they discovered the last body of Bridget O'Hara.
Whether the electric sub station still exists is anybodies guess. About to proceed on foot.
Many thanks for the tip.
Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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Hi Rob
I thought I'd keep you update. Beleive it or not the electric sub station where the bodies were stored does still exist.
Bet the kids in the area have some great hand-me-down tales.
Anyway looks like we've got permission to film there next week, so thanks for the tip off.
I will keep you updated on developments.
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4338
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 1:12 pm: |
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Thanks Jeff. Should be interesting.
Robert |
Stanley D. Reid
Police Constable
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 9:24 pm: |
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Hello friends
It seems to me that it would be fairly easy to cross reference contemporary death records with Heron Trading Estate employees and come up with this suspect's name, that is, if such a person ever existed. Since Mills' name has been carelessly thrown into the case, I don't see why liable would be a concern.
I've long suspected that this "solution" may just have been a red herring so the detective, in his own mind at least, would not have his record blackened with an unsloved case.
At any rate, this is a fascinating crime.
Regards,
Stan |
Jeff Leahy
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 6:44 am: |
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Hi Stan
An interesting idea.
As far as I can see there was more than one suspect. Fredie mills (who I dont buy but there are links) , a man who I'll refer to as the Australian, some have conected Bible John and Big John the person sited in Brian O'connells book 'found dead and naked'.
Big John was a retired police officer who worked as a security guard on the Heron industrial Estate. He's our number one suspect.
I find it unbeleivable that by commiting suicide he was able to avoid his name being connected to these murders. I dont beleive if his victims had of been school girls he would have gotten away with this.
However until the police release there records in 70 years time we cant be sure.
Interestingly Blonde Beryle was convinced that the killer was not working alone.
There is some evidence that some of the girls were involved in producing early porn films and conections to an underground party scene. I'm very interested if someone can prove a working link between some of the girls.
The distinctive size of the victims all between 5 foot and five foot two. Has made me wonder whether the killer sellected his victims in advance. Was the killer connected to the films or parties?
The very different MO also interests me. I'd love to know Glen Andersons veiw on this. Some drowned, some strangled and some suffocated. Were all eight the work of the same man GLEN?
I am now interested in finding out more about the victims and I'm very interested in talking to any relatives.
To be honest I find it quite unbeleivable that the families were never given a diffinative answer to what happened by the police. I guess its easy to say with hindsite but today DNA evidence would have solved this very easily. Nothing has been kept.
Where would you suggest we start looking for Heron industrial employment records? I know for a fact that the management of the estate has changed several times. I do have a conact for the current manager. Would these employment records be somewhere in the MET Archives? or would they be with the inland revenue?
Jeff
If your related to any of the Stripper victims I would very much like to talk to you.
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Stanley D. Reid
Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:19 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
Thanks for the information. I agree that, if the victims had been anything other than prostitutes, there would have been outrage at the way this case was hushed to a conclusion.
Interesting that you mention Bible John. I assume by that you are referring to the Glasgow serial killer.
I wrote about both those cases for a series of magazine articles but the publication went out of business before these two works could be put to print. My renditions regarding unsolved cases of the 1940s were in the last issue.
I'm in America so I'm not too sure where employee records for the Heron Trading Estate would be now but it seems like they would be in several locations. That's easy for me to say, right? Over here, a person's place of employment is usually listed in the obituary which is published in the newspaper. If it's the same there, then 1965 papers could be gone over for a man of about the right age who worked at Heron or who looked like a suicide, such as, saying "died at home".
Now to reveal my complete spudity, what exactly is a "Trading Estate"? I'd always assumed it was something like what we would call an "Industrial Park" here.
It's also interesting that you note a possible connection to the victim's extracurricular activities. I know it's been reported that Lockwood acted in "Blue Films" and that McGowan was related to the party scene as per the Profumo Scandal.
Good luck on you're endeavor. It sounds like you've gotten a good grasp on the case.
Stan
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Jeff Leahy
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 6:20 am: |
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Hi Stan
yes I think your correct, an Industrial estate or Trading estate is the same as a 'industrial park or business park. Basically an area without housing that small businesses can operate..usually light industry.
The heron Industrial estate is now a place where the BBC operate some of there out side broadcasat activity in Acton (west London) not fare from Hammersmith.
We were filming over there last week. In 1964 the estate was used by a car spray paint firm. Police found small traces of paint on some of the victims. This paint and fibre makeup matched up with the paint from that business. Directly opersite the company was an electrical sub station. On top of this sub station are open air vents. It is presumed the killer stored the bodies in this electric sub station and that traces of the paint drifted through the vents.
We explored the substation with Paul Begg (author), interestingly Paul discovered the substations cleaning book, very old and dusty. It dated back to the 1950's and was signed durring the period that the bodies would have been stored there. There was no mention of the incident and more importantly no tell tale flecks of paint to confirm the once proximity of a spray shop.
The substation contained two large transformers. On the floor were some boards. When lifted they showed a drop of some two half feet, about the same wide, some six to eight feet long. The perfect place to store a body, un-noticed.
There was another small building attached to the side which we were unable to access.
If this was the place that the Stripper kept his victims and I beleive from our research it was, it showed no signs of the paint the police connected to the killings.
The Bible John murders were indeed in Glasgow in the sixties. Interestingly enough I did some research on this story to a few weeks ago. The police were not willing to help and I beleive investigations in this case is: still on going.
Possibly they still have evidence to go on. But its interesting that these murders are handaled very differently to the Hammersmith murders.
I dont beleive that the two murders are conected in any way. There rearly is nothing to conect them as far as I can see, but some people have suggested a conection.
I think the security guard suicide is the most interesting. However Blonde Beryle clearly states that they were picked up by two men, and that she lost site of the man driving Lockwood about the sheperds bush area.
I'm pleased you picked up on the Tailford-Lockwood-McGowan conection. An area I am currently researching (will say nomore for obvious reasons) I think it would be very intesting if we could prove these girls new each other and worked together.
Having done a little research I realize how little is known about this case. The only book of any use is 'Found dead and naked' I have been unable to trace its author Brian Oconnell. I beleive that he must have made alot of notes and interveiwed people involved at the time.
Very interested in your article, have you thought of placing it on casebook? There is nothing really on the subject.
Yours Jeff
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Stanley D. Reid
Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 7:49 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
WOW!! That really sounds interesting. I've always been intrigued by this case and remember following it in the early 60s. Reports were pretty sketchy over here. The best account I recall seeing was on a TV network nightly news broadcast; CBS I think. The first time I heard Mills' name in connection with the case was in an entry in the crime section of The Book of Lists 2 that was written by Colin Wilson.
I've looked for Brian McConnall's book in our local libraries but none carry a copy. The first good account I read was in Chapter 11 of Donald Rumbelow's JTR book. I've also read Paul Begg's JTR book and think it's still one of the best.
I do have a video about "the Stripper" that I taped from, I believe, The History Channel. It was a half hour British program, perhaps, "History's Crimes and Trials".
When time permits, I'll try to reproduce the portion of my magazine article that pertained to this case.
The TV production sounds very interesting, although, I'm not sure if I'll ever have the pleasure to see it here. Could Paul Begg be working on a book as well? It sounds like something we could use.
How do you feel about the so-called early victims, Figg and Rees? There seems to be a lot of disagreement as to whether they were murdered by the same killer. Rees always looked pretty good to me since 1963 was basically in the time frame but Figg was way back in 1959.
Best regards,
Stan |
Jeff Leahy
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 93
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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Not certain stan...theres so little to go on. Diferent MO's only thing to link, victims size.
Have just finished scatching the film archives and noone has anything, not even a news report...
Does anybody else find that rather odd, given the size of this case at the time?
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 69
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
I do have that Histories Crimes and Trials episode that covers the case on tape. It has some crime scene shots, after the bodies were removed, and witness interviews. Supposedly the Hitchcock film "Frenzy" was based on the case but of course it's useless for any serious research.
Stan |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 70
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:32 pm: |
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My mistake. It was on a show called American Justice rather than History's Crimes and Trials. Not quite sure what's American about it but so be it.
Regrets,
Stan
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Jeff Leahy
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 116
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 9:01 am: |
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Hi all HELP!
I require a 1960's period car for a film reconstruction of Hannah Tailfords movements on friday.
Does anybody in the London area know of such a vechile?
An old Rover or Morris would be ideal. Any help advice anybody could give would be most gratefully received. Only require it for a couple of hours.
Yours Jeff |
tomo
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 3:01 pm: |
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having read the real yorkshire ripper by Noel Ogara, the suspect that was responsible for nine of the murder's not the four that Sutcliffe did, actually puts himself in the frame at the time of the "stripper" murders! i had not heard of them before but was researching since the book.
http://www.yorkshireripper.co.uk/hyper/ripper.htm |
