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Pamela Diamond
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 8:13 am: | 
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I have been a ripperologist since I can remember.
The suspects listed in the case book may or may not be "Jack The Ripper". I, for one, strongly feel that he was an "organized" killer, sexual phyocopath, who left very few clues.
I believe his victims were prostitutes because of seveal things. One, they would not be missed right away, they were "willing" to go with their murderer, Etc.Perhaps he did have a physical ailment which he took advantage of. Like Ted }}Bundy did with his "broken arm."
I have read and re-read the descriptions of the suspects and really can't believe any of them was the real Jack the Ripper. However, truth is stranger than science.
I applaud your work and someday we WILL know who he is. Until then, there have to be thousands of people who were brought in and interrogated by the police. I really think he was in police custody at one time but was deemed not responsible. I believe he walked. I believe he spent time at the funerals and wherever people were allowed to go. I sincerly believe that at the end of the crime spree, he had vanished to parts unknown. He was an egotist and would not have committed suicide. I also believe some of the things he wrote to the police was to throw them off the trail.
A serial killer never stops. Look at the Green River Killer or the Zodiac. Speaking of the Zodiac, why not take up a forum for him?
He's just as elusive as Jack.
Anyone out there who has ANY idea who this person is/was? This is all fun and games but to get to the nitty gritty, we have to look at ALL police records at this time and at each person who was brought in. We have eyewitneses, which are the ,most troubling of all. EVERYONE sees everybody differently.
Also, these five murders are by no means the first he committed. He was a consumate expert at the time of the second victim. Let's not forget a policeman involved, and many others. This case is overwhelming and since the Zodiac, just as baffling.
He did leave his "signature" in in the documented cases. They do that today and we still can't find
a these guys/gals. He was one evil, egotistical s.o.b. As I stated, if Ted Bundy had lived in thes times, there would have been a LOT more deaths.
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Stuart Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 11:10 am: |
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Greetings Pamela, Stuart
I was just reading about Ted the other day so I thought I would give you my input.I certainly agree with you there would have been alot more victims.Ted was a very astute, clever,albeit evil man. He escaped police custody twice - not an easy thing to do.He knew human nature and had every trick in the book.Jack the Ripper was an evil one, but my theory is that his actual intelegence was analogous to Homer Simpsons.He got lucky for a short period of time and knew when his run was finished.In modern times he would not have escaped capture.
Someday we will know who he is? This day may be a long way off.Have you got any ideas after 116 years how they will solve it now - DNA cant solve it.Why do you think the police had him in custody?Why do you think he is not one of the 70 plus suspects listed? Can you elaborate on this.
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Poorhoney
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 4:49 pm: |
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Hello Pamela and Stuart,
I enjoyed reading the comparisions you made between TRB and JtR. A few thuoghts of my own:
1. JtR would not have needed to use a ruse to get his victims to go with him. The women he targeted were not coeds leaving a library, rather prostitutes drinking and/or prowling for a client. No arm sling was necessary, merely cash.
2. There is no way of knowing if TRB would have killed more than JtR if he lived in the same era. Possibly yes, possibly no, and just possibly TRB wouldn't have killed anyone because the environmental influences would be different.
3. No way to make comparisions between the killers and their respective intelligence. I would like to point out that Bundy was captured and convicted and Jack wasn't.
Thanks for inspiring me to make my first post! I hope we can continue this thread and Pamela I am really looking forward to hearing your answers to Stuart's questions.
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Stuart
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:04 am: |
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Hi Poorhoney, Stuart
Since Pamela made her initial post some time ago, it may take her a while to realise it has sprung to life, so we may have to be patient.I, like you, thought it an inspiring place to make a post.Anyhow I'll try to add to the discussion.
* Point 1 - yes, by choosing prostitutes , he has no 'work' to do , the catch is in the bag.This is one point that makes JtR unique - nobody knows why prostitutes. Bundy, and all other serial predators to my knowledge, have not?This is a strong point that his 'agenda' may have been targeted at possible individuals or prostitution in general. (This is why Barnett has leaped as a contender for the title).
* Comparing the two is actually a moot point.TRB would plainly be an anachronism in London 1888.There would be a vast difference between a modern American man and a 19th century English gent.For hypothetical purposes , if you put TRB in a time machine to Whitechapel 1888 I would say it would have been a playground for him.The police were impotent by modern standards, people more naive, an easier environment. An impossible comparison though.
* I believe, Poorhoney, the argument of being captured is a little ambiguous.Bundy went on for years - the odds were he would be noticed at some stage.JtR, went for 3 months and was never herd from again. Once again I would say The United States FBI (which was hunting him) was a tadd more sophisticated than the 19th century London police with their hand held lanterns.
Convincing the police to take him to the courthouse to reserch, and then escaping through the roof was the work of a clever man.
These points can be all argued though so I hope you , or Pamela can give some input. |
poorhoney4
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 12:31 pm: |
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Hello Stuart,
I noticed the date of Pamela's post after I placed my post! Hopefully, she will check the board. Anyway, I am going to start by refuting a few of your observations and then ask a few questions.
I agree about the time machine; the point I was trying to get across pertained to if JtR and TRB were born in the other's respective era, what would they have been like, in which case there is no way to tell as the environmental influences would be different than what had shaped them.
As to serial killers that target prostitutes, JtR is not unique in that respect. The Hillside Stranglers (Buono and Bianchi), the Yorkshire Ripper (Sutcliffe) and Green River Killer (Ridgeway) all preyed upon hookers and that was just off the top of my head. I know I could find more if I spent a few minutes on the internet.
Yes, the police of today are more sophisticated, but so are the criminals, which, I feel, puts us back to square one in that respect.
About the courthouse escape of TRB, there was no "convincing" of the police involved. He was at the courthouse already as he was on trial and working on his own defense. Actually, most cops that spoke with/investigated Bundy saw right through him. I think one of the greatest myths that have grown around TRB is his intelligence, and if the only account of his crimes a person has ever read is Ann Rule's, I can understand why that would be. Bundy wasn't so much brilliant (average IQ) as he was audacious. There is no way to compare his intelligence to JtR as we do not know who Jack was, how many he killed, when he started or stopped, why he stopped and how close he came to capture (he may have very well been questioned).
Now, on to my questions. What, if anything, can be learned about JtR by studying Bundy's crimes? And will anything we learn help us discover who Jack was?
Honey |
ex PFC Wintergreen
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 9:42 am: |
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I find the comparisons on this thread interesting, but I really have to disagree with something that's been said here. Pamela said that one day we'll find out who the ripper is.
However I think it's fairly obvious that we'll never find out who he was. Think about it, what would prove it?
A letter from a high ranking Scotland yard naming who he thought it was? Because we're still not convinced that Tumblety is Jack.
A detailed diary from whoever Jack the Ripper was, because that didn't work to well either.
Even Patricia Cornwell tried the contemporary route to proof, that being DNA testing and nobody believes her.
The fact is we'll never know, ever.
That is of course until Time Machines are invented. |
Poorhoney
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 3:41 pm: |
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Salutations, ex PFC Wintergreen!
I am pleased that you have joined the thread. I agree with you that we will never know who JtR was difinitely, but then that is part of the fun. Afterall, whatever type of new evidence is discovered will never be enough to convince all beyond a doubt. Some of us are too married to our pet theories.
What I am enjoying about this thread is getting insight into the type of man (yes, man) JtR was.
I would love to read anything you would like to add (and that is addressed to all).
Honey |
Stuart Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 5:47 am: |
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Hey poorhoney 4 ,(how many of you are there?)
Thankyou for telling me about the serial killers who preyed apon hookers.I do have a counter question on this point. Did they attack only hookers as the ripper did, or a combination of normal women and hookers? You must remember this - hookers are in the firing line for many crimes. Secondly, I checked a little about the killers you mentioned in your last post and have found an anomaly.These were all frenzied sexual attacks where sex took place before murder, to my knowledge.Although the ripper chose whores, the forenzic scientists detected no sexual activity on any of his victims - a little odd? TRB certainly raped many victims. This makes the ripper unique to me. I think he may have had other issues here , just what , I am not entirely sure.What would you make of this?
I would like to answer your question about will anything we learn about Bundy, or anything , help us crack the ripper code.Ex PFC Wintergreen and yourself both said we will never know.If there is one thing I have learned in life - 'Never say Never'.Life is too unpredictable.This is the mother of all codes to crack but not impossable.In world War 2, the 'Super Nazi Scientists' had invented an unbreakable coding machine with trillions of combinations and called it 'Enigma'.No country even bothered to crack it , exept for a handfull in Britain.After a couple of years they cracked the unbreakable code.
The ripper is a bit like Enigma - he certianly is one.By probing other serial killers like Bundy,looking for clues in suspects pasts, past police files and hoping for a bit of luck , some key may yet turn up.Somewhere out there may a note , genuine dairy(unlike Maybricks forgery),picture,documentect yet to be unearthed.Some unsuspecting nobody may crack the biggest mystery ever.So anyway Honey the search must continue ( I hope I am not sounding like the X-files and boring you).
One thing is for sure - if the ripper code is ever cracked, there will be the party to end all parties in Whitechapel, and I will be there. Ardour! |
ex PFC Wintergreen
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 9:04 am: |
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Dear Stuart,
I can understand you saying that TRB and JTR are different, but in murdering only prostitutes Jack isn't special. Peter Suttcliffe only killed prostitutes or people he believed were prostitutes.
And maybe it's just because I am a deeply cynical person but I just can't accept we'll ever have "the proof" to know who he is. The only thing that I can think off that will categorically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, converting all to its hypnotically factual power would be if photos surfaced taken by Jack the Ripper of him slicing away.
Another diary, even if it was proved to have been written at the time, will have all the cynical, sceptical, contemptuous and souless Jack the Ripper buffs, such as myself, roaring out that it doesn't prove anything and was probably written by another cynical, sceptical, contemptuous and souless Jack the Ripper buff.
Regards Catch-22 character. |
Stuart
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:36 pm: |
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ex PFC Wintergreen,
In my initial post,I stated that the day the ripper is bagged may be a long way off, but did not say IMPOSSIBLE.I guess the best way to put it is like this. I am a realist - yes.I think it is unlikely and a while off if he is caught, but we cant say never or impossible.Being a Chelsae fan, I think it is likely they will win the English Premier this year.However, I dont think the teams behind them will give up just yet. I doubt the bookmakers will pay out just yet.I dont think we can give up on the ripper just yet. Where there is light , there is hope.
I believe the reason the message boards are so popular with so many, maybe yourself aswell,is that deep down we are still hoping for that small chance that might be there.As I said to Honey, the search must continue with vigour and ardour.
An interesting thread has just opened up on the General Disscussion suggest that - Have we missed something simple? I do believe we have overlooked something simple that may yet to be unearthed.If you dont buy the silly Royal theory, then the ripper was from the working class and not a brain surgeon.He must have thus made at least one fundamental mistake,possibly more.
I would like to make a quote from a well known crim here in OZ:
"Without any disrespect to the police,investigative journalists or the NCA,they all stand on the outside straining there eyes to look into the criminal world - the truth is the underworld is a cesspit, not a science." Mark 'CHOPPER' Read.
I believe the ripper is somewhere in this cesspit.Regards Stuart. |
Tony
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 5:46 pm: |
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Everything I've read recently about the Ripper, suggests that he was an extremely disorganized and impulsive killer, not to mention mentally deranged (unlike Bundy, for instance). He was far from being an expert at what he was doing... it was only a combination of luck, timing, and the primitive nature of contemporary police procedures, that allowed him to escape detection. As John Douglas says in his book 'The Cases That Haunt Us,' I believe that, in this day and age, Jack would be caught pretty quickly.
As someone else pointed out, prostitutes are, in fact, very popular victims for serial killers, for all the reasons stated... above all, they're easy to 'ensnare,' and it doesn't generally create a lot of public outcry when a few hookers disappear.
Yeah, I think Ted was only an average-to-fairly- bright guy, not the criminal mastermind that Ann Rule and (to an extent) Bob Keppel portray him as. Serial killing was still a fairly new phenomenon as far as law enforcement folks were concerned... different agencies didn't communicate or share information with each other, leads weren't recorded and organized properly, etc. Hell, if Ted hadn't been stupid enough to use his own name at Lake Sammammish, he might still be walking free to this day... |
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