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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 136
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:12 pm: | 
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Hi Chris and John,
I noticed that the article about the death of
Dr. Dutton actually said the police took several
articles from his apartment (including the pistol). It didn't say papers per se. Furthermore, it suggests something was very wrong.
On the one hand he only had one patient, and used a rented office for two days a week to write about dieting. But the apartments were full of
cobwebs (suggesting a lack of cleaning, and a lack of use), and he was behind with his rent.
It is a pathetic end for anybody.
Dutton's family does not seem to be very famous.
I first thought it was the 18th Century Prime
Minister who ended the American Revolution, but
that was Lord Shelburne, not Sherborne. I couldn't even find a listing of a Dutton in the
Encyclopedia Britannica (11th ed.)or a Sherborne.
The town of Sherborne has a small article, and
refers to a Sherborne Castle, but it seems to go
back to the middle ages.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 6:03 am: |
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Hi Jeffrey,
The article from the Daily Express says that the detectives took away "documents", this I would suggest could include, letters, medical notes, his prescription book, and possibly, just possibly, his diaries. But the real question is why did they take anything at all? (apart from the gun) It does not appear to have been treated as a suspicious death, so the only thing policemen (and not detectives) would need is details of the next of kin. Something odd there don't you think.
By the way, the details of the Dutton family I posted earlier, I should have addressed them to John Ruffels, he being the first person to connect Dr. Dutton with the Sherbourne family, my apologies.
Regards,
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 125
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 8:14 am: |
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Thanks for the Sherborne family details John.
And thanks Chris for the clarification of the term "West End".
From the newspaper accounts it is not clear from which address the Coroner's officer took away documents. Possibly he searched both locations.
I suppose it was necessary for the Coroner's office to satisfy themselves there were no suspicious circumstances following the discovery of the solitary Specialist's death.
Doubtless, the sole female patient for whom the doctor had recently issued a prescription, the rusty gun and the gambling debts and stock broker's letters all needed to be sifted. Was there a public Inquest?
One press report predicted a big turnup of eminent medical men at Dutton's funeral. Then an
admirer coughed up the price of his funeral to save the igmony of a pauper's burial.
"Paging Hermione Dudley"!! |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 92
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 4:14 pm: |
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Hi John
Ther was no public inquest, the death certificate says "Certified by Edwin Smith, Coroner for County of London after Post Mortem without Inquest".
I think you may have a good point in what you say about the police taking away documents, but it would be nice if we could find more information there.
With regard to the funeral, when I was at Colindale last week, I checked various local and London papers for details of the funeral, but was unable to locate anything.
Regards,
John Savage |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 104
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 12:17 pm: |
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Hi all,
Whilst continueing to search for Helena Dutton, I caame across the following in the National Probate Calendar of 1943, and gives more evidence of a Dutton - Sherborne connection.
 |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 395
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 2:49 pm: |
|
Hi, All:
Sherborne and Sherborne Castle are in Dorset, so this possibly provides yet another Dorset connection to the case: Montague John Druitt (lived in and buried in Wimborne), Chief Inspector Frederick George Abberline (lived in retirement in Bournemouth and buried in Bournemouth), Sir Frederick Treves (peripherally through John Merrick, the Elephant Man, and the London Hospital), and Dorset Street, Spitalfields, site of the murder of the fifth canonical victim, Mary Jane Kelly. . . However, I may have missed it among the postings above, but I am not sure a connection has been made has it, between the Dutton family who held the title of Lord Sherborne and Dr. Thomas Dutton? If I am wrong about this, and a connection has been made, please correct me.
All the best
Chris |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 105
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 8:51 am: |
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Hi Chris,
Sorry to disapoint you, but the Sherborne in question is in Gloucestershire, and is completly different to the town of the same name in Dorset. (I must admit that I made the same mistake at first).
With regard to the Dutton connection to the title of Sherborne, John Ruffels has pointed out that Dr. Dutton lived in a house in Plymouth which was called "Sherborne", and I have noticed that he also lived in a house of the same name in Hastings, Sussex. Because we know that early in life Dr. Dutton inherited a fortune that he soon spent, (please see Daily Express article in my post of 25/09/03) the possible connection becomes interesting because it could be the source of his inhertitence.
Chris Scott tells me that he is going to write up the whole thing for Ripperologist Magazine, so hopefully things will become clearer.
Regards,
John Savage |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 396
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 6:52 pm: |
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Hi, John:
Thanks, John, for setting me right that it is to the aristocratic line of Duttons of Sherborne, Gloucestershire, not Sherborne, Dorset (my mistake!!!) with whom you think there is a tie-in with Dr. Thomas Dutton. I would agree that if he named two of his homes "Sherborne" the connection appears plausible, particularly if we bear in mind the inheritance he apparently spent, which might have come from the Sherborne Duttons. I look forward to hearing more on this question and also to receiving the article for Ripperologist that you say Chris Scott is preparing on Dr. Dutton.
All the best
Chris George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 135
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 4:01 pm: |
|
Hello Chris & John et al,
Perhaps I could add a couple of other interesting points to the list of possible aristocratic links between Dr Thomas Dutton's family and the Sherbourne title.
If you should study Chris Phillips' and John Savage's and Chris' et al, posts above very closely, you will see one of Thomas' sisters, I think Helena, is described in her Death Certificate,(quite curiously as - and I'm lazily paraphrasing from memory) - as "Spinster"-or "Single" "formerly a Lady"!!
Thomas Dutton was the oldest male in his family so any inheritance, one presumes would go first to him.
Also, in one of the press reports of Thomas' death, reference is made to his mixing with the "horsey" aristocratic crowd, and to his once owning steeple-chasers(?).Two titled names are mentioned.
One of the (accurate) statements about Thomas contained in McCormick's book, is that he was a member of the West Chichester Microscopical Society; at that time, (1884/5), he was residing with a brother(?) at "The Gorses, Sidlesham,Sussex".
No doubt he could have run horses on a country property in Sussex(?)
As Chris Phillips said in a precient email to me, after all this searching, we might locate a distant relative who possesses some (disappointing) scribblings by Thomas Dutton. But this is a road I think we must travel, if only to eliminate any false evidence.
Who knows? The opposite might be the result...
Eureka!
One other perhaps, telling point, is that several
members of the Debretts listings of early Duttons, have the same forenames as Thomas' family....
But still no trace of HERMIONE DUDLEY... |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 7:39 pm: |
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Hi John
Thanks for your comment about the words "formerley a lady" appearing on the death certificate, it is an interesting thought and may provide a new avenue for research. However this was on the certificate for Ada Barbara and not Helena. I am still searching for a registration of Helena's death but so far without success, and I hope that eventually we may trace some decendant of Thomas, but of course both the sisters were unmarried so I doubt there would have been any children.
I feel that is very likely that Dr. Dutton would have kept a diary and that this probably was the source for what McCormick calls the "Chronicles of Crime". I also share your view, that if we ever do find these diaries that the information will be disappointing, but would at least throw some light on the claims made by McCormick.
Regards,
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 137
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 4:38 am: |
|
Hello John,
Yes, thank you, in turn, for your comments.
I wonder just how often Thomas Dutton featured in
the social pages of London newspapers which specialised in recording the doings of race course
habitues?
In view of the popularity of the "sport of kings" with the aristocracy, and their heirs, perhaps some sporting historian might point us in the right direction.
Does Dutton's Biographical entry hint at a reasonable stretch of residence by the ex ship's doctor, on dry land? say, the period I referred to previously, 1884/5 when he resided in West Sussex? This might suggest the period he owned horses.
Also, surely an illustrious family like the titled
Sherbo(u)rnes would have a family tree expert who could instantly tell us, not only of any genuine link between Thomas Dutton's family and the Barons
Sherborne, but perhaps, they too could put us in instant contact with any surviving descendants of Thomas Dutton's line?
We should certainly quizz them about Hermione Dudley as well. |
Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 126
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 12:24 pm: |
|
John R
Burke's Peerage does give a pedigree of the Duttons, Lords Sherborne, which seems to show that the connection, if any, must have been very distant indeed (this is from the 1949 edition).
John Dutton, 2nd Baronet, died without issue in 1743, and was succeeded by his nephew James Lenox Naper (d. 1776), who changed his name to Dutton.
According to BP, James had 4 sons: John, who died unmarried; James (1744-1820; see below); William (ancestor of the Napers of Loughcrew, Meath, so presumably he didn't use the surname Dutton) and Ralph who died without issue in 1804; also 4 daughters.
James Dutton, 1st Baron, had one son John (b. 1779; see below) and 3 daughters.
John Dutton, 2nd Baron, had 3 sons: James Henry (b. 1804); John Thomas (b. 1810) and Ralph Heneage (b. 1821); also 2 daughters.
Clearly the only one of these sons old enough to have been the father of Dr Dutton's father George, b. c. 1822, was the eldest, James Henry, 3rd Baron. But his eldest son, John William, was born 1828.
From this, it seems as though any connection between Thomas Dutton and the Lords Sherborne would have to be extremely distant, unless BP has missed out a son (or issue of a son).
Chris Phillips
|
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 401
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 3:24 pm: |
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Hi, John:
I may be wrong about this, but I think except in the possible venal and sexual sense, it is not possible to de-Lady a Lady. That is, if you are an aristocrat, you might have sunk low in circumstances but you would still be Lord or Lady Muckpile no matter to what dire station of life you have sunk. So the comment "formerly a Lady" on the death certificate of one of Dr. Thomas Dutton's sisters is quite interesting. Perhaps it simply means the counterpart of "shabby genteel" or something more? Curious!
All the best
Chris |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 107
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 12:47 pm: |
|
Hi John Ruffels,
I am afraid I have no idea if Dr. Dutton featured in the social pages of the newspapers, however it is possible for me to check The Times up until 1905, and I will do this when I have more time in the library. In the meantime any observations from any sporting historians out there would be most welcome.
Going back to Dr. Duttons entry from the Medical Who's Who of 1914, it appears that he was in Chichester from 1881-4, however the same article shows that he was also "Public Vaccinator, Manhood District, Westhampnett Union E at the same period. I am afraid I have never heard of Whesthampnett, any ideas?
Whilst reading back through the posts on this thread I realised it was a fairly simple matter to trace the death of Dr. Dutton's father and I have come up with the following information from the National Probate Registry of 1894:
DUTTON George of Sherborne House Laton Road Hastings, gentleman, died 16th January 1894. Administration LONDON 28 February to Thomas Dutton M.D. Effects £7,142. 11s 6d. resworn December 1894 £6,892 11s 6d.
The value of £6,982 11s 6d. today would be £435, 237. so a reasonable sum, but perhaps not all that large if it had to be divided between all the brothers and sisters. It does however suggest that this could be the source of his inhertitence.
Thanks to Chris Phillips for the details from Burkes Peerage and I shall try to make use of this information later.
Regards,
John Savage |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 402
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 2:01 pm: |
|
Hi, John Savage--
It looks like our Dr. Thomas Dutton was public vaccinator at the Westhampnett (or West Hampnett), Union workhouse. Follow the link for a map and photograph of the workhouse plus a tantalizing link to some records for the workhouse at West Sussex Record Office, Chichester.
All the best
Chris |
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 108
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 8:45 pm: |
|
Hi Chris,
Many thanks for that link to the West Hampnett Union Workhouse, very interesting. I must say it is something that has had me beaten for a while, so I am glad we now know that Dr. Dutton was in the Chichester area for the period 1881-4.
Regards
John Savage |
Caroline Anne Morris
Inspector
Username: Caz
Post Number: 459
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 5:42 am: |
|
Hi All,
I've just remembered an email I had from Keith Skinner a while back which may be of interest.
Keith wrote:
Noting the interest in Thomas Dutton and Hermione Dudley, researchers may find Paul Feldman's unpublished research in this area to be of some value...
From memory I recall Paul tracked down an old gentleman, (born 1916), who lived a couple of hundred yards from Dutton's surgery in the Uxbridge Road and remembered Dutton. This gentleman's mother used to visit the Doctor for medicine and Dutton apparently enjoyed chatting with her. He was able to provide us with a "thumbnail" sketch of Dutton.
Dutton's family, thru' Helene Dutton, was also traced and contact established, but not fully explored...
I do remember the search for Hermione Dudley being quite intense and thorough, and I believe there was some interest when it was discovered that Dutton used to run a small nursing home for a few elderly women around the time of his death.
If anyone would like me to find out more, or to ask Keith if Paul Feldman would have any objection to sharing his research with active researchers, do drop me an email and I'll see what I can do.
Love,
Caz
|
John Savage
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 149
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 9:10 pm: |
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Hi All,
Just doing some research on Donald McCormick and I have found that he also wrote a book entitled "Taken For a Ride: The History of Cons and Con Men"
Makes you wonder doesn't it.
Regards,
John Savage |
Byron Hadley Esq
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 7:43 am: |
|
I have read with interest the discussion here, I am a member of the Sherborne Family of Gloucestershire, you have correctley listed some of my ancestors, I currentley hold the family archive the muniments and I can safely say that my family had not connection with this Dr Dutton or had any envolvement with the Jack the Ripper case.
As you may know they are hundreds of people with the surname of Dutton but the Lords of Sherborne (my family) were a rare bunch in that there only relations that are stated on this site are the Calverts which was mentioned by Mr John Savage also the details given by Chris Phillips is correct however John William died when he was 18 and was succeeded by my Great Great Great Uncle Edward, 4th Lord Sherborne.
I have enjoyed reading this discussion today, if you need proof of there not being a connection between Dr Dutton and my family I can perhaps scan a family tree, I would be happy to answer any questions if there might be a need to ask them.
Also I am listed on the Dutton family website if you should need some proof of my credentials.
Many thanks to you.
Byron Hadley Esq
Sherborne Park |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 167
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 4:07 pm: |
|
Hello Byron
Many thanks for your post, and first of all let me say that no one here is suggesting that your family were connected with the Jack The Ripper murders of 1888.
This thread was started many months ago and in that time we have tried to piece together more information on Dr. Thomas Dutton, who died in 1935, but early in his career is said to have practiced in the East End of London at the time of the murders. In 1959 the author Donald McCormick published a book entitled “The Identity of Jack The Ripper”, in which he relied heavily on the writings of Dr. Dutton which were entitled “Chronicles of Crime”. Donald McCormick claimed to have seen these in 1935 and nobody has seen or heard of them since, so as you can imagine us followers of the saga would be very excited if we could trace them.
In the course of our researches we have found that both Dr. Dutton and his father George Dutton (b.c. 1822 – d 1894) lived in houses which they called Sherbourne House, by linking the name Dutton to the Lords Sherbourne we have simply being trying to trace a connection in the mans history. I am sure that if Dr. Dutton’s family were ever linked to yours, it would be in some quite distant way.
There also remains the possibility that Dr. Dutton’s family had a naval connection, as he served as a ships doctor and his father appears to have been the grand son of one Captain Benjamin Dutton R.N. so should either of these two names appear anywhere in your family archive, we would all be pleased to hear from you. Also involved in McCormick’s story is an elusive lady by the name of Miss Hermione Dudley (see separate thread “Paging Miss Dudley”) should this name mean anything to you I for one would be delighted to know as I have spent many fruitless hours searching for even a scrap of evidence to show that she existed.
Once again many thanks for your message.
John Savage
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 183
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 9:15 am: |
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Hi All
From yesterdays newspaper I notice that BBC2 are making a new series of a programme called "Restoration". The format being that viewers are shown derelict, clapped out, old buildings, and asked to vote for the one they would most like to see restored.
In this series one of the properties to be included will be Sherborne House, Sherborne, so perhaps we may learn more.
Best Regards
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 219
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 5:18 am: |
|
Nicely spotted John Savage.
Perhaps they might find a three-volume set of handwritten Chronicles of Crime buried under the rubble in the conservatory.
And who knows? The ghost of Hermione Dudley might
moan from the parapet of Sherborne House:
"Give up the gambling Dr Dutton.Or the family estates will be reduced to nothing ...." |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 199
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 8:55 pm: |
|
Hi All,
It looks like the good doctor was doing his bit for the war effort. This cutting taken from The Times 1917.
Mr. Dixon Scott was the treasurer of the Pure Food and Health Society
Best Regards
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 230
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 3:19 am: |
|
That's an interesting item, John, I wonder if the Pure Food Society ever got Dr Dutton to lecture on "Bully Beef"?
(You know, the stuff they gave the soldiers in the trenches, to throw at the enemy). |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 200
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 7:23 pm: |
|
Hi John
Although I have searched, I have been unable to find any real information on the Pure Food Society. I have asked the local library to try to obtain one of Dr. Dutton's books, so if that ever turns up we may learn more.
The trouble with throwing bully beef at the enemy, is that more than likely they may throw it back at you; thus the need for steel helmets!
Best Regards
John Savage |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 210
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 12:06 pm: |
|
Hi All,
I have, after some time, been able to lay my hands on one of the good doctors book, and hope that the following will be of interest.
Digestion and Diet
By, Thomas Dutton, M.D. UNIV. DURH.
1st. published 1892 by Henry Kimpton, 263 High Holborn, London W.
This 4th. edition published 1913 by The Walter Scott Publishing Co. Ltd.
Felling-on-Tyne
The front and back pages of this book contain full page advertisements for various healthy foods of the day, including, Horlicks, Fry’s Malted Cocoa, Halls Wine (The Marvellous Restorative) Neave’s Health Diet, Bengers Food, Hovis, and Perfect Cooking – The Gas Light & Coke Co.
There is little to tell us any information about the author himself, but reading through the book, it appears that Dr. Dutton travelled widely through out the world, including Europe, Australia, South Africa and America. His address is given both in 1892 and 1913 as 25, New Cavendish Street, London W. These of course were his consulting rooms for many years. Perhaps one interesting remark shows that he was in touch with his family, and therefore I quote it in full. “ As typical of this general ignorance of the fairer sex on the subject of diet, I may instance the case of a near relation of mine who having been left in charge of the housekeeping, once asked me if a leveret was fish, bird, or animal, as she could not make out what the cook was talking about.”
The book deals with the importance of diet to good health, and is only one of several that Dr. Dutton wrote upon this subject, he writes in a straightforward way using the everyday language of the time. This book is clearly intended to be of interest to the masses, rather than a learned text for the medical profession . Split into different chapters, each devoted to a type of food, (meat, fish, vegetables, drink, etc.) the benefits of which are discussed and recommendations given, on not only the amounts to be eaten, but advice on how to cook as well! In this respect the author recommends to his readers the benefits of that modern contrivance , the “gas cooker” as being the best way to cook, although admitting that he would still prefer the taste of meat roasted on a coal fire.
In order that we know a little more about Dr. Dutton, I have quoted underneath his preface to the fourth edition, and also his conclusions(in part), from this I hope it will be seen that he was an intelligent and enlightened man in his prime, unlike the picture one gets from Donald McCormick’s book, of an eccentric old man in a dusty attic.
PREFACE TO THE FOURTH EDITION.
The Fourth Edition of this work being called for in consequence of the last edition being sold out, I have taken the opportunity to revise the text and bring the work up-to-date
Although there has been a considerable advancement in the study of dietetics, I regret to record our knowledge on the scientific use of various foods has not been so rapid as I anticipated when writing the first edition. The subject is still only taught in a perfunctory manner in the medical schools, therefore the student does not take interest in dietetics, the importance of the study being revealed only when he is in actual practice.
THOMAS DUTTON
25 New Candish Street,
London W.,
November 1912
CONCLUSION
From the opinions expressed in the foreoing articles, the reader will, I think, readily come to the conclusion that I am in no sense a faddist on any particular subject, but try to sift the good from the bad in all arguments that may be brought to bear on the subjects I have been discussing. In Fact, there is nothing I dislike so much as faddism, and I attach very little value to the opinions of the rabid teetotaller, the vehement vegetarian, or the the bigoted homeopath. Instead of doing their respective causes any good, they, in my humble opinion, simply ruin the, and make sensible people hold aloof from all controversy on the subject, their arguments being in fact, very much akin to chaff when separated from grain. I never argue them myself, as I think there is nothing more disagreeable than to be subjected to a volley of abuse when one is merely trying to enlighten oneself on a very debateable subject. Here is a recent specimen of a rabid teetotaler’s utterance, and doubtless the man wishes the public to believe that he is a man of intelligence and a pioneer of the first order, against the abuse of alcoholic drink. This apostle of that excellent cause, the temperance cause, is reported to have said that “grape shot is better than grape juice” Such public statement as this, coming from a gentleman who, I presume, wishes to be thought a sane man and a great promoter of the war against drink, is ridiculous and extravagant in the extreme, and I do not think I am far wrong in my estimation of my fellow creatures’ intelligence when I say that the frenzied opinions have not the slightest effect upon them, and in fact prevent their joining a cause having such supporters, even although they might previously have had a wish to promote it. There above is but an ordinary specimen of the language employed, and the following is also a choice example of the intemperate advocate, and was used by a lady in airing her anti-tobacco views. This ardent reformer. With most excellent taste, informed the audience that she considered a man who drank and smoked was a “dirty beast”. Comment on language such as this is unnecessary, but surely it would scarcely induce any who came within this vituperative dame’s indictment to renounce the tastes which so greatly excited her ire. Good causes for the benefit of the community at large should, to be of practical service, only have in their ranks temperate advocates.
I believe myself that much good has been done by those who have studied the subjects of drink, tobacco, and a pure vegetarian diet respectively, and who, as a result of such studies, have become teetotallers, non smoker,. or vegetarians as the case may be, and have given the world their experience in a modest way. I am delighted o meet such people and have a little pro and con with them. They are true champions of their cause, and are the only ones that can carry conviction into the enemy’s camp.
The whole subject of dietetics is very interesting, and too much time cannot be devoted to the subject, for I believe it is to the dietetics physician the public will go in future for the cure of many diseases. I have very little doubt in my own mind that if this subject be properly mastered, we should be able, by dietary, to extend the average age by about twenty years, and in addition succeed in driving away the tendencies to many hereditary diseases which are common at the present time. I sincerely hope these articles will popularise the subject and make diet (with its necessary essential – cooking) one of those subjects with which a practical acquaintance will be just as essential as the art of speaking or writing correctly………………………
I have not quoted fully the whole of this chapter of Dr. Dutton’s conclusions, but I am sure this will be enough to give us an insight into the man, if anyone cares to read the full chapter I will be pleased to e mail it on.
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Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 806
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 3:27 pm: |
|
Hi, John
Many thanks for posting this information from Digestion and Diet by Thomas Dutton, M.D., which adds more to what we know about the man. Of course, the picture that McCormick presented of an eccentric old man in a dusty attic might have been true of Dutton in his last years, or it might just be McCormick embroidering on the facts, as he apparently was wont to do. Reminds me of the nutty looking picture of Walter Sickert in his last years that appears in Cornwell's book. Easy enough I suppose to make your person of interest out to be a batty old fruit if you want him to have either inside information on the case, or to actually have been Jack the Ripper. 
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2713
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 4:36 pm: |
|
Hi John
Thanks for posting that. The good doctor seems likeable enough, but do I detect a slight anti-teetotal bias? But then, he once advertised beer in the "Times". 
Robert |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 211
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 7:14 pm: |
|
Hi Robert,
Dr. Dutton appears to have enjoyed a drop to drink, but in his book he reccomends moderation. He himself drank wine in the summer months and beer in the winter, however his recomended amounts were three glasses of wine or three half pints of beer (which to me at any rate, is very moderate).
In an article in "The Times" of April 2nd. 1910 which extolled the virtues of a new non alcholic beer is the following quote. " As the result of both chemical and practical test of Nonal [the non alcholic beer], Dr. Thomas Dutton, the celebrated physician, reports:- The Ale is a fine, amber coloured, sparkling beverage, with a sharp, pleasent, refreshing taste; the Stout is a heavier nutricious drink pertaining to black beer... Being absolutely pure and nutricious, the beer can be taken with advantage by the most fastidious".
Myself, I shall stick with the excellant Tetleys cask conditioned bitter, available at the pub next door, to which I am about to depart, for a modest three halves (or possibly more)
Cheers!
John Savage |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 262
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 6:38 am: |
|
Hello John Savage,
More marvellous expositions of some of Thomas Dutton's activities- and, even better, his words.
Thanks for sharing.
He strikes me as a person who had to keep active: Travelling the world; forming new societies; examining things under microscopes at the West Sussex Microscopical Society; examining the clues in the Jack The Ripper case; rearing
steeplechasers; lecturing lessers mortals about diet...
Wonderful that we have word from Byron Hadley a descendant of the barons Sherborne.
That at least, fairly authoritatively eliminates any link between Thomas Dutton M.D. and the titled Sherbornes.
Interesting Thomas' family chose to perpetuate a link with the family through housenaming....
Pleasing to see Mssr Hadley confirming Chris Phillips'and John Savage's genealogical research. Shows both are accurate. |
Sir Robert Anderson
Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 189
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 8:14 pm: |
|
I recently acquired a copy of "The Lighter Side of my Official Life", which I authored quite some time ago. So long ago, that I don't even recall having written it!
But I just noticed that my copy is from the library of Henry Dutton. Any relationship to Thomas?
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 316
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:41 pm: |
|
Sir Robert,
As far as I know Dr. Thomas Dutton only had one brother whose name was Edward. This was the man Dr. Dutton lived with when he was a member of the West Sussex Microscopical Society.
However I have come across a Henry Dutton, and the following is taken from an earlier post of mine:
"Regarding the "Sherborne" connection I have found an entry in The Times of Jan 7th. 1935 which refers to the funeral of one Henry Dutton, which took place at Hinton Ampner, Hants (about 7 miles east of Winchester). The interesting part is that one of the mourners was Lord Sherborne."
As I recall, this Henry Dutton was quite well to do, and may possibly have had his own library. However we have established that Dr. Dutton was not part of the iullustrious Sherbourne family of Duttons.
If there is anything else on the inscription I would be interested to know.
Regards
John Savage
|
Sir Robert Anderson
Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 192
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 1:16 pm: |
|
"If there is anything else on the inscription I would be interested to know."
Thanks for the info, John. No, the label simply says "Henry Dutton", and it appears to be quite old as the opposite page is browned except for the part touched by the label.
Sir Robert
"I only thought I knew"
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4826
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 6:22 pm: |
|
This seems to be Dutton in 1871.
42 Chepstow Place, Kensington
George Dutton, 49, banker’s clerk, born Lymington
Barbara, wife, 45, born South Shields
Children
George B, 21, clerk to general merchant, born Pimlico
Edward I, 19, accountant’s clerk, born ditto
Thomas, 16, born ditto
Isabel, 13, born ditto
Georgina, 9, born Kensington
Sherborne, 6, born ditto
Ada B, 4, born ditto
Helena,2, born ditto
Servants
Mary A Loth or Leth, nurse, married, 56 born Halstead
Alice Humphreys, Cook, unmarried, 21 born Aberystwyth
Mary Irish, housemaid, unmarried, 18 born Paddington
Robert
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 456
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 7:46 pm: |
|
Hi Robert,
Thanks for posting this information.
It is quite interesting to note that they had a son called Sherbourne, as we have previously discussed the Dutton families repeated use of this in naming their various houses "Sherbourne".
It shows that they must have had some links either with the town of that name or the titled family of Sherbourne.
Rgds
John |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 438
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 10:43 pm: |
|
Hello Robert and John,
Yes, I too noticed the "Sherbourne".Is that the way the titled people spelt it?
It almost suggests a determined attempt by George Dutton senior to perpetuate a family connection
which (well, todays descendants at least) seem not to be able to establish...
I wonder if there was a dark secret?
No Hermione unfortunately. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4830
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 5:48 am: |
|
In 1881 Sherbourne was at Glamis St, 1 Denmark Terrace, South Bersted, Bognor, Sussex. It seems to have been a school run by a John A Swornsbourne(?) but there were only three boarders. Sherbourne is age 16 born Bayswater, and Swornsbourne is 39 born Gloucestershire.
Robert
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4831
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 7:52 am: |
|
Here is a list (not complete) of some Duttons with this name :
England and Wales, Civil Registration Index: 1837-1983
Viewing records 1-12 of 12 matches for:
Sherb* Dutton
« Global Search Results
Name Year Quarter Record Type District County
Dutton, Charles Sherbon
1895 September Marriages Eastbourne Sussex East Sussex
Dutton, Charles Sherborne
1869 September Marriages Croydon Surrey
Dutton, Charles Sherborne
1896 June Marriages Croydon Surrey
Dutton, Charles Sherbourn
1870 June Births Croydon Surrey
Dutton, Charles Sherbourn
1903 September Births Croydon Surrey
Dutton, Charles Sherbourne
1849 March Births Newington London Surrey
Dutton, Charles Sherbourne
1903 September Births Croydon Surrey
Dutton, Edward L (Lord Sherborne)
1894 September Marriages Kensington Greater London London Middlesex
Dutton, Royale Sherborne
1893 September Births Plymouth Devon
DUTTON, Sherborn
1864 September Births Kensington Greater London London Middlesex
DUTTON, William Sherborne
1882 December Deaths Wharfedale West Riding of Yorkshire West Yorkshire
Dutton, William Sherborn_
1879 March Births Wharfedale West Riding of Yorkshire West Yorkshire
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4833
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 9:36 am: |
|
I don't know if these are our man.
JUNE 7th 1900
SEPT 21st 1928
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 810
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 11:00 am: |
|
Hi all,
On the hand, one is glad to see Dr. Dutton was keeping abreast at the latest trends in science, as he is taking an interest in ultra violet rays. On the other hand, it is sad that he (like so many others in his profession) misused the knowledge - x-rays were used by many professionals as a cure for cancers (one of those who died from this treatment was the short story writer Katherine Mansfield in 1922). Still, one wonders what Dutton's invention was like.
The other article is possibly our Dr. Dutton, but was he known to be a stock market investor?
Best wishes,
Jeff
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 462
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 8:26 pm: |
|
Hi Robert,
Very good work in tracking down this newspaper report of the bankruptcy of Dr. Dutton. It seems almost certain to me that this is the right man, because:
1. several of his sisters were born in Kensington.
2. the 1901 census records Dr. Dutton as living at 76, Clarendon Road, Kensington (courtesy Chris Scott)
3. the address of 13, Holland Park Avenue would have been quite close to an address we have for his sisters at Cornwall Road, Westbourne Park.
4. In a report of his death on 12th. November 1935 in the Daily Express is the sentance " When Dr. Dutton was a young man he inherited valauble estates, but realised them and went through a fortune"
I think you have found some important new information here - congratulations.
Jeffrey,
I think you may be confusing ultra violet rays with x rays.
Ultra violet light was used for some sort of medical purpose until at least the 1950's. I recall as a small child being submitted to this treatment, which involved sitting in a darkened room with various other children, dressed only in a pair of trunks (possibly woollen) and dark glasses, an ultra violet light was shining and you had to sit there for about fifteen minutes. God only knows what it was supposed to do, but you will be glad to know that I survived the experience more or less in tact.
Rgds
John
|
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 811
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 8:37 pm: |
|
Hi John,
I possibly did confuse the x-rays with the ultra-violet rays. All the same, your experience is similar to what is described in the 1928 article by Dutton, wherein he says he advises his patience to wear a garment of wooly fabric.
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4838
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 4:02 am: |
|
Thanks John. Jeff, there was a longish item for Sept 11th on sun treatment, which may have been what sparked Dutton's letter. I'll post it to you and John if you want it.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4840
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 5:00 am: |
|
Incidentally, in the "Times" index for Sept 21st, Dr Dutton's letter is listed as "Clothes for hot Weather." So there you go - clothes for every occasion.
Robert |
Mike the Mauler
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
|
Hi all,
According to the "Letters from Hell" book, McCormick stated that he got from conversation with Dutton and from Dutton's diary I believe, that Dutton knew the Ripper. McCormick then explains that, according to Dutton the ripper was a middle-aged man who was exacting revenge for the death of his promising son. The implications are that prostitutes directly or indirectly were to be blamed for his son's demise or downfall or both.
It is my understanding that McCormick was at least an embellisher if not a complete fabricator. Of course, if that is the case, what can we gain from McCormick's story? Has this piece of alleged McCormick fabrication ever been looked into, or has it just been dismissed as nonsense?
Yours Truly,
Mike the Mauler
PS. Be kind in your responses. I played back-to-back rugby matches yesterday and am in the process of healing. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1377
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:55 am: |
|
Mike
I think the consensus is McCormick invented the alleged contents of Dr Dutton's diary wholesale.
A certain amount of effort has been made to check the story, particularly the "Miss Hermione Dudley" who was supposed to have been given his "Chronicles of Crime". As far as we know, no such person existed - for example, she doesn't appear in the online index to the 1901 census, nor can her birth be found in the "FreeBMD" index to civil registration records (which now has about 95% coverage for the period 1870-1910).
You can find some further details earlier in this thread:
http://casebook.org/cgi-bin/forum/show.cgi?tpc=4920&post=67936#POST67936
Chris Phillips
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 479
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:43 pm: |
|
Hi Mike,
Early in his career, McCormick was a journalist working for a news agency at Ludgate Broadway, London. Dr Dutton's death, together with a brief mention of his "Chronicles of Crime", was made in the Daily Express and a couple of sunday newspapers. I believe it was probably McCormick who wrote these reports, and when writing his book twenty years later, used the information, although how much is true and how much invention is anybodys guess.
Rgds
JOhn |
|
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